ceiling debate and debt and deficit talks should be separate. mr. johnson testified before the house and the ways and means committee on a panel that included the former staff director of the senate budget committee. this is two hours, 10 minutes. >> in the audience, take a seat. we are expecting votes, so we will get started. the chairman is on his way and he will be landing in a couple minutes, but we will get started. good afternoon. welcome to the hearing on the debt limit. he asked we go ahead and start the hearing so members will have as much time as possible with our distinguished witnesses. i will read the statements. then i will turn it over for the usual opening statement. good afternoon and thank you for joining us today, all of you. the topic of today's hearing is the debt limit. since the president took office in 2009, there have been four increases in the debt limit, totaling over $5 trillion, a 55% increase. as of december 31, 2012, our nation reached a current debt limit of nearly $16.40 trillion and the treasury department has b